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Post by Mentat_Tir on Mar 20, 2002 12:09:58 GMT -5
I went to see Archbishop Desmond Tutu speak last night. It was an absolutely amazing experience and I found myself clinging to every word.
One idea that he brought up is that "God is not a Christian." In other words, God, whether you call Him Mohammed, Allah or Jehovah is the same.
What do you think?
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Post by Dohlman on Mar 20, 2002 12:15:21 GMT -5
Funny, I was thinking that thought the other night. God is the same, however, access to God is not. Jesus said, "No man cometh unto the Father but by me." My thought.
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Post by =^=First Contact=^= on Mar 20, 2002 12:30:09 GMT -5
Hmm... give me a few days to think about it...
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Post by UltimateTrekker on Mar 20, 2002 14:06:18 GMT -5
This theory assume, of course, that you believe there IS a god in the first place.
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Post by StolenThunder on Mar 20, 2002 14:14:59 GMT -5
^ Indeed ^
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Post by Mentat_Tir on Mar 20, 2002 14:28:49 GMT -5
This theory assume, of course, that you believe there IS a god in the first place. Of course there's a God. I'd be happy to introduce to you Him.
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Post by UltimateTrekker on Mar 20, 2002 14:47:07 GMT -5
If it's that little thing on the South Park episode "Hello God, It's Me, Jeus" I'll be very upset. Then again, I think I'd be a bit upset if it was a talkign clould that talked with an Enlish acent
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Post by Mentat_Tir on Mar 20, 2002 14:59:43 GMT -5
If it's that little thing on the South Park episode "Hello God, It's Me, Jeus" I'll be very upset. Then again, I think I'd be a bit upset if it was a talkign clould that talked with an Enlish acent LOL! I'd avoid taking theological guidance from Trey Parker & Matt Stone.
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Post by Christina on Mar 20, 2002 15:43:31 GMT -5
hmmm, well, if you believe that everything was (somehow) created by one being, then God is.......God. And that's all.
It's how you feel you ought to go about getting closer to Him that starts to get tricky. I believe Jesus has the right message - Treat everyone you meet on life's journey with love. Hard, but eventually rewarding.
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Post by UltimateTrekker on Mar 20, 2002 17:13:39 GMT -5
The only flaw I see in some people is that they claim their MUST be a god because otherwise, how did we get here?
That conclusion is little more than simpleton ratinalization (sp?) because...
If we can ONLY exist if something created us.. there must be a god... but what (or who) created that god.. and what created him... At somepoint that has to be SOMETHING that just happened to exist.
If you CHOOSE to believe that a god created us, fine, but if you're only proof is that something can only exist if someone created it, then you're stuck in an endless circle.
Note: This is not saying you're believe in a god is stupid! I just know people who, for no other reason, believe in god for lack on an explanation... that's like saying you believe that stars are just little flashlights because you don't know what they are. It's an uneducated guess based upon the biases of your parents and where you were raised...
OK, this is a hard point to get accross so let me try to surmise again... Don't pray to Jesus for lack of anything better to do... if you believe in Jesus and god, good for you, but if you don't REALLY believe, don't pretend. Stop following you grandmother just because you wanna make her feel better. Figure out your OWN conclusion, anything less is cheating yourself and unfair to those that activly seach for an answer.
<looks down at pile of 20 soap boxes...> Oops.. sorry guys.. carry one.
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Post by Aurian on Mar 20, 2002 17:39:38 GMT -5
I really should stay out of threads like these..
With the risk of angering all the christians here...
I do belive in God... sort of.. I just dont think he is the ONLY God. And not necessarily the most powerful one or as depicted in the bible.
*the wiccan jumps down from the soapbox*
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Post by Zeph on Mar 20, 2002 20:08:20 GMT -5
Looks at the pile of soapboxes and backs away.... This is better handeled by Peter
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Post by Ana Ng on Mar 20, 2002 20:31:23 GMT -5
Well, as long as we're referencing South Park for observations on God, I'm going to include a transcript of one of Parker & Stone's great monologues on the subject, from the episode entitled "Kenny Dies".
Stan:Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my fr-f-f-friend. Why can't God take someone else's f-f-friend?
Chef: [sighs] Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all p***ed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes.Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?
Stan: But then, why does God give us anything to start with?
Chef: Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power.
[pause]
Stan: I think I understand.
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Post by Elric3960 on Mar 21, 2002 3:24:51 GMT -5
^^One reason why I'm not sorry I don't have cable.
I feel that "belief systems" are beautiful when they bring people together to love one another or open the door to honest discussions like this, but they can be extremely counterproductive and dangerous when they divide people and fuel wars, especially Holy Wars!
I believe that this is UT's point, more or less. If it is, I'm in complete agreement with it.
And let's not forget, Atheism and Agnosticism are "belief systems" as well.
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Post by Mentat_Tir on Mar 21, 2002 10:26:28 GMT -5
There's no debating that the fact that we exist and have enough brains in our melons to discuss this topic is a miracle in itself. Whether you believe that you were created by God or that you evolved out of a pool of something-or-other (or both,) you have to admit life is incredibly complex. But I see that point as irrelevant; it has no practicality in my everyday life. I can relate to trying to prove God through logic, though. I grew up in the church all my life, I knew all the stories and memorized Bible verses memorized word-for-word. It wasn't until high school, though, that any of it sunk in. I had to start over with the question "Is there a God?" I know that God exists today because I can feel him working in my life. He guides my career, my family life, my finances...everything. He's rewarded me with a wonderful job, a home, a beautiful wife and daughter and, most of all, I'm happy! Does this mean that bad things will never happen to me? Of course not. But I do know that I'm not afraid because I have God to help me through it. I don't spend time worrying about money or death or my future because I put it all in His hands. Anyway, there's my futile attempt to explain the unexplainable.
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