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Post by Zeph on Feb 1, 2002 23:58:37 GMT -5
As much as I love the Defiant....it still bothers me it had a cloaking device if you go by "canon" after the Enterprise incident I thought Star Fleet outlawed them on Federation ships ??....thoughts ??
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Post by Christina on Feb 2, 2002 5:29:19 GMT -5
Well, Defiant was designed to go up against the Borg, and it was a joint Federation/Romulan project. So technically the Feds HADN'T got cloaking technology at all - the Romulans were allowing them to share it for this one little ship against this one big threat to the whole Alpha Quadrant.
And they had Seska disguised as T'Rul to operate it, Eddington to protect it...
Amazing it was still on board after Search part 1, really!
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Post by UltimateTrekker on Feb 2, 2002 9:03:36 GMT -5
Actually, the defiant was GREAT politics. The... hold on (I NEED a reference!!! NOOOOO).. no, I don't... just got it.
Nope, I was wrong...
Ok, according to the Treaty of Algeron, the Federation was not allowed to use cloaking devices in the Alpha Quadrant...
Sooooooo.... as long as the defiant was in the GAMMA quadrant, no laws were broken (and of course, like mentioned above, the Romulans didn't care to much as long as it was being used against the Dominion or the Borg.
Romulans are very smart people and know when to let the Federation cheat a little bit.
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Post by Mentat_Tir on Feb 5, 2002 13:09:21 GMT -5
Actually, the defiant was GREAT politics. The... hold on (I NEED a reference!!! NOOOOO).. no, I don't... just got it. Nope, I was wrong... Ok, according to the Treaty of Algeron, the Federation was not allowed to use cloaking devices in the Alpha Quadrant... Sooooooo.... as long as the defiant was in the GAMMA quadrant, no laws were broken (and of course, like mentioned above, the Romulans didn't care to much as long as it was being used against the Dominion or the Borg. Romulans are very smart people and know when to let the Federation cheat a little bit. I never understood the Treaty of Algeron. Giving up the ability to have cloaked ships is a big thing. Not only in combat, but having a cloaking device would be valuable in a first contact situation or when studying a pre-warp civilization. I'd like to know what the Romulans gave up to balance it out. I hope the Treaty of Algeron didn't say something like, "We, the Federation, agree to not develop cloaking technology if you, the Romulans, agree not to kick our sorry peace-loving butts."
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Post by pumpkinhead1701 on Feb 5, 2002 13:40:25 GMT -5
maybe the Romulins didnt allow use of the cloaking device in the AlphaQuadrant, but Sisko used it often outside the quadrant (WayOfTheWarrior)
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Post by UltimateTrekker on Feb 5, 2002 14:36:38 GMT -5
I beleave it was Ron Moore who finally made the Treaty up. He was sick and tired of the question and hated the theories "The Federation wouldn't do THAT!" "The Federation isn't smart enough." "Uh... they just don't."
He felt the treaty was really the best explanation to a premise that never made much sense to him either.
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Post by Mentat_Tir on Feb 5, 2002 14:58:57 GMT -5
I think I read that "The Great Bird" said that the Federation doesn't "sneak around." I guess if every starship had a cloaking device, it would negate the whole "boldly going" think.
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Post by UltimateTrekker on Feb 5, 2002 15:16:21 GMT -5
That's quite possible (and familier)
The Treaty was created for the episode, "The Pegasus" which was during season 7 (post Gene)
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Post by Tyax on Feb 13, 2002 13:21:53 GMT -5
The Federation actually do have cloaking technology, remember the Pegesus?? Or more recently Insurrection?? The Pegesus was definately a federation cloak, just not indorced by them and as for the holo ship there is no evidence to suggest that it wasn't a federation cloak!(Just thought I'd point that out)
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Post by Mentat_Tir on Feb 13, 2002 14:32:39 GMT -5
That's a good point. Assuming that the holoship and the cloak suits were manufactured by the Federation and not the Sona, we could deduce that the treaty applies to Federation starships.
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Post by UltimateTrekker on Feb 13, 2002 15:29:08 GMT -5
Very good point. However, the Pegasus didn't really work (got stuck in a rock)
That wasn't the same TYPE of cloak which is why it didn't go against the treaty (which was INVENTED for that episode)
Of course, you are quite right about the Holoship... I wonder if the treaty expired or if the Romulans (In better relations since the war) let it slide. Also (I'll need the watch the flick again) it's MORE likely (would have been smarter) if the holo ship was just hidden with a hologram as are the duckblinds, NOT actually cloaked. It would make sense since there isn't too much of a REASON it HAD to be cloaked. The hologram would be enough if one wasn't LOOKING for it.
Maybe I'm just justifing for the sake of it though.
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Post by StolenThunder on Feb 13, 2002 15:45:51 GMT -5
I wonder if the treaty expired or if the Romulans (In better relations since the war) let it slide. Well, I doubt that they were told. Well, there are mentions of "decloak the holoship" [Picard]...
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Post by Mentat_Tir on Feb 13, 2002 17:04:31 GMT -5
Of course, you are quite right about the Holoship... I wonder if the treaty expired or if the Romulans (In better relations since the war) let it slide. It is doubtful if they let it slide. If I recall, Insurrection was during the Dominion Wars, before the Romulans joined the alliance against the Dominion. The Romulans were allowing Jem'Hadar warships into their territory and relations with the Romulans were not that great. Don't forget there was one other cloaked Federation ship...the Enterprise-D from "All Good Things." ;D Granted, it was in an alternate timeline, but that at least brings up the possibility that a cloak may be standard issue on future Federation starships.
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Post by UltimateTrekker on Feb 14, 2002 8:32:02 GMT -5
However, that timeline also HAD an Enterprise-D
Of course, in the REAL (yeah, real, we're sick aren't we) timeline, the D was crashed.
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Post by Mentat_Tir on Feb 14, 2002 9:59:01 GMT -5
However, that timeline also HAD an Enterprise-D Of course, in the REAL (yeah, real, we're sick aren't we) timeline, the D was crashed. ^ LOL True, but we know at least some of the elements of "All Good Things" could come true in the future. It seems that when Picard changed the future, he didn't change the entire future. The "Endgame" uniforms were the same, for example. And if the rumors are true about "Nemesis," we know that LaForge and Leah Brahms get together. Although a cloaking device on the Enterprise-D is no longer possible, standard-equipped cloaking devices on other future Federation ships could happen.
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