Worf on DS9: Your Thoughts?

[dllmzca]

OK, this is my second thread at Spacedock (first was a 'Hi' thread) and I hope it will interest people enough to generate some posts in this forum.  ;D

So, what did you think of the addition of Worf to the Deep Space Nine crew? Why do you think it happened?  I'll hold off expressing my opinions until a few people have had a chance to express themselves. (After all, it's only polite to wait for a response to one's questions before launching into a spcheel of one's own... ;D )

I'll just kick back and enjoy a beverage, for now...

[UltimateTrekker]

Well, let's compare it to the addition of Seven (since the point was quite the same)

-Worf was an interesting character that brought along with him a fan base.
-Seven was a GORGEOUS woman who brought IN a fan base (and then an interesting character)

-Worf came into the show JUST as it was getting very good.  It wasn't Worf (as my father believes)
-Seven came onto the show when it was doing NOT so good, and spiced things up a bit.

-Worf's character continued to flow and grow.
-Seven was stagnantly "What is human?"

So, my opinion.  He did add a great new dynamic, but it was NOT neccessary.  The show would have flourished without him.

[dllmzca]

UltimateTrekker, thank you for replying! (I was a little worried that people around here might not be interested in talking about DS9, given how quiet the forum is.)

I agree that Worf's addition was not necessary. Was it a tactic to draw more TNG fans over to DS9? I can't quote the DS9 Companion chapter and verse, and my copy is at home at the moment (I'm at work, hiding in my office from my students who are doing re-enforcement exercises with Access. I'm bad!) Does anyone know what/if the companion says about this?

(As an aside, does anyone know why I can't point and click to type in these field boxes, half of the time? When I want to move back into existing text for editing, I often have to use the keyboard to position my insertion point: I can't use the mouse...)

Back to topic, now.  IMO, the addition of Worf did not add that much to DS9, other than some comical moments, (when I think of Worf on DS9, I often first remember the times when he was the straight guy, in the comedic sense.) Now, I think that Michael Dorn is a good actor, and none of this is meant as any sort of slam against him.

It's all a matter of subjective taste, of course, but I personally was never really drawn to the Klingons. I was happy to leave Klingon-centric episodes behind on TNG, and wish that DS9 hadn't spent as much time on them as they did. I realise that the Klingons had to play a role, given the scope of the Dominon War, but
did we really need to see as much time devoted to them as we did?

I'm also interested in your observation about Worf growing during his time on DS9, UltimateTrekker. It what ways did you see his growth occur? (It's not that I'm disagreeing with you, I'm just interested in the views of others.) Hopefully, more people will contribute their impressions, as well!

[UltimateTrekker]

I found it very exciting to see Worf in TNG go from dishonoured, to REALLY dishonoured, to honored.
Then in TNG, he against lost his family honour for GOOD) when he sided against Gowron (who we found out later was being falsly lead by an impersonated Martok)

To see him fight the Jem'Hadar when a prisoner to see the kind of warrior he was.

He learned of love (real love, not thrown in Troi love) and loss (and back again).

He had to give up his brother, Kurn, for good, the last of his family until his son, Alaxander came back dispising him.

Then, joining Martoks family, and eventually (all but given away seconds later) becoming the Chancelor of the entire Klingon Empire (after killing Gowron)


He gave that up.  It was not for him.  Instead he became an ambasador, and we'll see how that went in the next movie.


He had to deal with being on a lax Space Station, NOT a starship.  He gained command.  We saw him as a leader, not just the hired gun he was on TNG.

DS9 was GREAT for Worf.  Dorn was givin so much to do with his character.  That's a gift for any actor.



(As for the cursor thing, I'm having trouble for the first time.  As for the companion I call.. ANA!!!!!!!!!!)

[dllmzca]

Thanks again for replying UltimateTrekker: you've given me some points to ponder with your solid examples of Worf's character growth. Off the cuff, though, I agree that DS9 was good for Worf but I still am wondering if Worf was particularly good for DS9. (Could the time devoted to Worf have been better spent developing some other character that was there from the beginning, instead?)

Would anyone else like to contribute their opinions on Worf in DS9?

[StolenThunder]

dllmzca said:

I still am wondering if Worf was particularly good for DS9. (Could the time devoted to Worf have been better spent developing some other character that was there from the beginning, instead?)

Worf was certainly good for DS9... He became an integral character, but not at the expense of others, though... Indeed, the truth is rather the converse. He added much to the other characters. Jadzia was simply a little bland before Worf arrived - the Worf/Jadzia relationship has to be one of the best seen... And the other characters still developed individually, as well.

He also set up many storylines that would otherwise have proved impossible. Good storylines, certainly.

Worf added an excellent dynamic...

[dllmzca]

StolenThunder said:

Jadzia was simply a little bland before Worf arrived - the Worf/Jadzia relationship has to be one of the best seen... And the other characters still developed individually, as well.

He also set up many storylines that would otherwise have proved impossible. Good storylines, certainly.

Actually, Jadzia works for me as an example of what I was trying to get at in the first place.

Personally, I found the entire concept of the Trill fascinating. Here is this species which exists in a symbiotic relationship with another. Now, this kind of thing usually is the stuff of sci-fi horror: a la Invasion of the Body Snatchers, even TNG's 'Conspiracy.'

Yet, in DS9, we have a representative of a culture where this has occured and it is actually considered an honour to be joined. I was so curious to see how this relationship came about in the first place. Which species was native to Trill? one/both? Under what circumstances did the first joining occur? Was there a period in Trill's history where this whole idea caused revulsion and horror? IMO, there was so much potential to develop this species and I would have rather seen that done than spend more time with the Klingons...

I do realise that this is not directly related to the arrival of Worf, but I feel that it works as an example of time that could have been spent focusing more on some of the existing characters.

I also don't know if Worf's presence alone made certain good storylines possible. (Though I'm certainly open to having examples pointed out to me! I'd like to think that I come to boards to gain new insights and appreciation for different points of view...)

Please don't get me wrong, though. I love DS9 as it is! It is my favourite of the series. I guess it's just that I'm don't feel that Worf was crucial to the success of Deep Space Nine (as I've seen reported in articles, reviews, and such...)

[UltimateTrekker]

Some great Worf story lines.
Primarily those involving his Oprah's-weight like honor (gone, back, gone, back)

Namely The Sons of Mogh in which Kurn is dishonored by Worf.

[dllmzca]

UltimateTrekker said:

Primarily those involving his Oprah's-weight like honor (gone, back, gone, back)

***dllmzca's coffee sprays out of mouth onto monitor screen in most unseemly fashion***

LOL!

Great turn of phrase, UltimateTrekker!

 A tip o' the mug to you!

(Not that there's much left in it, though. You owe me a new monitor!  ;D )

[Ana Ng]

dllmzca said:

Yet, in DS9, we have a representative of a culture where this has occured and it is actually considered an honour to be joined. I was so curious to see how this relationship came about in the first place. Which species was native to Trill? one/both? Under what circumstances did the first joining occur? Was there a period in Trill's history where this whole idea caused revulsion and horror? IMO, there was so much potential to develop this species and I would have rather seen that done than spend more time with the Klingons...

Ok, I know I read this somewhere, and please, please don't ask me where, because I really don't remember, but it's my understanding that the Trills and the symbionts are both native to Trill and that an environmental accident of some sort cause the first joinings.

My DS9 companion is still packed, but from what I read about Worf's arrival is that it was most definitely a tactic to bring TNG fans over.  The writers had been working on building up the Dominion, but Paramount basically sent down a mandate that Worf was coming (which pleased the writers) and that Klingon storylines would take precedence over the Dominion and Bajor(which was a bit of a curveball for the writers, since they'd been working for years on establishing these races and conflicts).  

As for my opinion about Worf on DS9, I have to say I loved it.  DS9 *was* great for Worf, so much that now when I think of Worf, I think of him on DS9 as opposed to TNG. His character got so much more exploration, as did the entire Klingon race, and the writers brilliantly worked the Klingons into the Dominion conflict.  

To be honest, I was never much of a fan of Klingons until DS9. But Worf, Martok and the gang completely turned me around.  

As for what Worf did for DS9, I think he added an ingredient that was missing.   I think his character helped other characters.  I loved his relationship with Sisko, especially when Ezri revealed that Sisko "intimidated" Worf.  I loved the way he interacted with Quark, and it was nice that Worf and O'Brien were friendly because of their past time together on the Enterprise.  And of course, the Jadzia/Worf pairing was hands down the best romantic relationship in all of Trek.  

If we're questioning new characters, I'd say my least favorite was Ezri.  I've always thought it was a shame that Terry Farrell left the show, especially since if we hadn't, we would have all been spared the whole Ezri/Bashir nonsense.

[dllmzca]

Thanks again, all for your replies!

Ana, I think you've helped me isolate my issue with the whole thing. I think that what didn't appeal to me was the amount of times that Klingon storylines came to into play.  It felt a little too much like TNG redux for my personal taste. (Please don't get me wrong, I also liked TNG very much. It's just that I liked the different feel of DS9 as it was.)

That said, I will try to dig out the Worf/Klingon centric eps from storage and have another look at them. Everyone's posts have persuaded me to give them another go...

[Elric3960]

Late for the party as usual, I see.  Sorry "Prof!"

I've always enjoyed the Klingons as characters since TOS and I thought that Worf was a particularly fascinating character in that he was an atypical Klingon.  He was generally restrained, he spoke in a formal manner, and the only times that he broke the rules was when his family honor or his personal honor was at stake.  K'elayr called him "the Ideal Klingon, the perfect minimalist."  Guinan brought him to task for not laughing very often.  It was Jadzia who finally got him to open up regarding his reserved behaviour, something that even Deana couldn't do, at least on screen.

What did Worf do for DS9?  The main thing that I enjoyed about DS9 was that the non-humans outnumbered the humans for the first timein the history of Trek!  Making the Klingons more prominent was long overdue IMHO.  The Bajorans make great background characters and the Cardassians and the Jem Hadar were great villains, but I think the viewers needed a wild  card race that could jump from one side of the good/evil spectrum to the other and remain in character.  I don't think that the Cardassians alone could have done that, so you needed the Klingons as well to spice up the mix.  Of course, they could have introduced a new Klingon character a la Kira Nerys-substituting-Ro Laran, but we'd have to go through the get to know him/her phase all over again. Hence:

What did DS9 do for Worf? When we saw Worf-centered episodes, they tended to fall under the "Klingon Empire or Starfleet Command:  Which should Worf Choose?" mode.  They started his character that way in DS9 but they didn't just focus on that.  They focused on the character's off-duty life as well as his on-duty one.  I like how the show illustrated the difference between "letting one's hair down on a spacestation" and doing it on a starship.  "Worf falling in love, getting married and becoming a widower" storyline was definitely the most richly told love story in all of Trek because it involved two characters that the viewers got to know separately and as a couple.  We were there from beginning to end! I think that we have a better idea of who Worf is after seeing him in both shows that we did in just one of them.  I could say the same about O'Brien, but that would be the subject of another thread that I might create if our Esteemed Thread Host declines the honor.

[dllmzca]

Elric3960 said:

I could say the same about O'Brien, but that would be the subject of another thread that I might create if our Esteemed Thread Host declines the honor.

By all means, Elric3960, start your thread! The more, the merrier, IMO!

[Elric3960]

Thank you, dllmzca, and a belated welcome to Spacedock!  I've been busy for the past couple of months, so I've lost track of who's new and who isn't.  My apologies to you and everyone else who joined us recently.

The new thread has just been created.  Please dive in at your convenience.