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Post by Andorian_Incident on May 15, 2002 11:22:31 GMT -5
Here we go.....the US Army's Hymn is "O Lord of Hosts! Almighty King" and for the Navy it is "Eternal Father"
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Post by Peter_Pevensie on May 15, 2002 12:43:03 GMT -5
^^^ Hmm...I didn't realize that the U.S. armed services had official hymns. Does the ACLU know about this? And if they do, why haven't they taken it to the Supreme Court yet? Of course any hymn is going to contain some explicit or implicit reference to God, seeing that a hymn is "A song of praise or thanksgiving to God or a deity." So I'm still not sure what your point is. Are you saying that having a national anthem that mentions God is okay because the guys (and girls) with the guns in America all have official songs that mention God? So if all your friends went and jumped off a bridge, would you join them?    ;D |
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Post by Andorian_Incident on May 15, 2002 16:50:02 GMT -5
Not at all, I'm just saying that there is no seperation between government and religion--no matter what we do or how much we try to kid ourselves. So why not stop pretending and facing reality. Religion is an intrinsical part of our society, and you can't take it out, no matter how hard you try. Some religous elements may have been watered down over the years, but they are still there. Believe it or not, holidays such as Thanksgiving and Christmas weren't declared official holidays to have excuses for days off work, over-eating, and getting gifts.
And must importantly, I believe religion--and "God" to be highly personal. The name "God" has different meanings to different people. When I think of God, I have a different interruptation of who he is. My way of thinking of God is probably different from others from my own ELCA Lutheran church. No one can tell me who or what God is, because they are merely giving me their own opinion and thoughts on the subject. No religion can tell me what I have to believe, or do to achieve the afterlife if such a place exists.
And so because "God" is such a personal word and religion watered down, I see no problem with the word God being in our national anthem. Now, if they put The Lord's Prayer to music and tried using that as the national anthem, I'd probably have a problem.
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Post by Peter_Pevensie on May 16, 2002 8:26:28 GMT -5
Not at all, I'm just saying that there is no seperation between government and religion--no matter what we do or how much we try to kid ourselves. So why not stop pretending and facing reality. Religion is an intrinsical part of our society, and you can't take it out, no matter how hard you try. Well then, if that's what you're trying to say, I agree with you, AI.  Because the Republic was founded on explicitly religious principles, our repeated attempts to exorcise it from society are akin to "cutting of one's nose to spite one's face." In fact, I would take a further step and say that it is national suicide to even attempt such a thing. I'd say you're biased because you accept the premise that God exists. I'd imagine that a person who rejected that premise wouldn't be so blase' about a reference to Him in our national anthem. And, after all, that's the point of my original question. Are our resident athiests just too busy to comment on the question? Actually, I'd call that revival[/b]. |
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Romana
NCC 1701
Power became my lover, power is like a drug.
Posts: 69
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Post by Romana on May 16, 2002 14:04:25 GMT -5
I don't believe in god. In an ideal world, I don't think religion should have a place in the running of the country. As for a religious national anthem, in a multicultural and multi-religious society it strikes me as tasteless regardless of the history involved. Historical precedence does not make something 'right'. Having said that "God save the Queen" does make me feel kind of proud and patriotic - but I think it's more to do with the music and the associations of pomp and ceremony than the words. I respect anyone's right to worship as they wish, but I don't see why the leaders of a religion should have a say in the running of the country (eg. Bishops in the House of Lords. Are they still there at the moment? I've lost track of the reforms *rolls eyes*. Anyway I didn't mean that they can't vote or anything). I hope I made some kind of sense...  |
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Post by Christina on May 16, 2002 14:49:13 GMT -5
Yes you did.
But I hope you don't know any more of our great Anthem than the first verse. Because the rest of it is very inflammatory these days!
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Post by StolenThunder on May 16, 2002 14:59:00 GMT -5
These ones...? O lord God arise,
Scatter our enemies,
And make them fall!
Confound their knavish tricks,
Confuse their politics,
On you our hopes we fix,
God save the Queen!
Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world ov'er
From every latent foe,
From the assasins blow,
God save the Queen!
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!
Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour,
Long may she reign!
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause,
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!I'm still entertained by the obviously "created in the need of a rhyme" lines : "Confound their knavish tricks, Confuse their politics, On you our hopes we fix," and "Thy choicest gifts in store, On her be pleased to pour," ;D |
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Post by Christina on May 16, 2002 15:04:39 GMT -5
Remember when it was written?
That's the Scots we're being rude about there! (So much for the British National Anthem!)
the closest England comes to a theme tune is Jerusalem.
Which is at least a small improvement on 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' as heard at rugby games...
And if this has already been said, sorry, but I can't be asked to read the entire thread at this time of night.
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Romana
NCC 1701
Power became my lover, power is like a drug.
Posts: 69
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Post by Romana on May 16, 2002 15:25:10 GMT -5
Yes you did. But I hope you don't know any more of our great Anthem than the first verse. Because the rest of it is very inflammatory these days! Blimey! I see what you mean! No, I only knew the first verse and I only learned that a couple of years ago. As I said, I think most of its effect is the associations and the music. |
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Post by Peter_Pevensie on May 16, 2002 17:26:00 GMT -5
^^^ You never know...it could be that God you don't believe in trying to tell you something... ;D (That combination of emoticons was meant to imply that I was kidding.) Pastor Peter runs far, far away.[/i] ;D |
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PreatorX
NCC 1701-A
Infinite Tribble free days!!!
Posts: 194
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Post by PreatorX on May 16, 2002 18:31:06 GMT -5
Back to the original subject: My national anthem: www.countryreports.org/sounds/canada.mid"Oh Canada!" Am I still the only Canadian on this board? I like my national anthem. Technicly "God Save the Queen" is the Royal anthem. And I've always wanted to write new lyrics to "The Maple Leaf Forever." The current lyrics are very... British Imperial I guess. BTW, according to that website ( www.countryreports.org/canada.htm ) Canada is only slightly larger than the U.S. and all of Canada's border is shard by the U.S. I guess they forgot that Greenland exists, and the fact that Canada borders Russia over the North Pole. Check this web site for comparison: www.infocan.gc.ca/facts/geography_e.html |
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dllmzca
NCC 1701-A
Official Guardian of the Sacred Stembolt of O'Brien
Posts: 116
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Post by dllmzca on May 16, 2002 22:27:36 GMT -5
"Oh Canada!" Am I still the only Canadian on this board? Hi, PreatorX ! No sir, you are not the only Canuck on this board...  Oh, Canada... It's a lovely anthem, IMO. I also like the Royal Anthem: God Save the Queen. |
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Romana
NCC 1701
Power became my lover, power is like a drug.
Posts: 69
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Post by Romana on May 17, 2002 1:31:33 GMT -5
You never know...it could be that God you don't believe in trying to tell you something... ;D (That combination of emoticons was meant to imply that I was kidding.) Pastor Peter runs far, far away. [/i] ;D[/quote]  Keep running. I will catch you. |
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Post by StolenThunder on May 17, 2002 12:38:37 GMT -5
BTW, according to that website Canada is only slightly larger than the U.S. and all of Canada's border is shard by the U.S. I guess they forgot that Greenland exists, and the fact that Canada borders Russia over the North Pole. Oh yes, it isn't great for that... I use the CIA World Factbook if I need any accurate information... [ www.cia.gov ] The site with the anthems was just a quick Google search... |
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Post by Elric3960 on May 18, 2002 14:25:15 GMT -5
I couldn't disagree more, Elric, with your opinion of The Star Spangled Banner, especially vis a vis America the Beautiful. This is a paradoxical stance for me, given that America the Beautiful is actually a hymn. But I feel that the image of the flag flying defiantly over our nation in the face of all who would see it cast down is a stirring one worthy of being called THE national song. I can understand the contradictory position that you find yourself in, Peter, as well as your intention to play "Devil's Advocate." (strange occupation for a Parson, I must say ;D) Allow me to return the favor. The Beautiful Book that you live by specifically states that we shouldn't worship graven images and we should love our neighbors as we love ourselves. Paying homage to a piece of cloth and using it as an instrument of defiance tends to defeat that purpose IMHO. I would prefer to revere and respect an idea than a material object, even a symbolic one. For the atheists in the crowd, how does flag-waiving sit with you? What's the difference between worshipping a deity and paying respect to an object that used to be displayed only on Memorial Day, July 4th, Veteran's Day, Armistice Day, VE Day, VJ Day and "Flag Day?" Should we remove "In God We Trust" from our currency? Where should we draw the line? For the Canucks, Peter and I already gave our words of respect for your beautiful anthem. |
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;D
Because the Republic was founded on explicitly religious principles, our repeated attempts to exorcise it from society are akin to "cutting of one's nose to spite one's face." In fact, I would take a further step and say that it is national suicide to even attempt such a thing.
